The Business of Orthobiologics Podcast
Hi! My name is Ariana DeMers and I am an orthopedic surgeon and regenerative medicine expert. I have successfully integrated Orthobiologics into my busy practice and I wanted to share my experience. Integrating orthobiologics in your busy orthopedic or sports medicine practice is the most effective way to get more time in your life while improving your patients care. If you are looking to add PRP to your practice and you don’t know how to start, this show examines how to take these important steps in your practice. If you want to also make more money in less time, have happier patients and enjoy your life, then join me in The Business of Orthobiologics podcast.
The Business of Orthobiologics Podcast
Orthobiologics: A Practical Guide To Supplementation And Healing | Conversations in Regen Episode 22
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This content is designed for doctors and healthcare professionals, but patients interested in regenerative medicine and optimizing their outcomes are welcome to learn along.
In this episode, Dr. Ariana DeMers, widely known as the Queen of Business Orthobiologics, sits down with Dr. Jordanna Quinn to break down a practical, often overlooked aspect of orthobiologics: how to optimize the healing environment through proper supplementation and nutrition for healing. Rather than focusing solely on procedures like platelet rich plasma therapy, they explore what to do before PRP injection, how to approach preparing for PRP injection, and why these steps can significantly influence patient outcomes.
Through real-world clinical insights, they discuss how aligning biology, timing, and patient preparation can lead to more predictable and effective results in orthobiologic treatments. This conversation is especially valuable for physicians looking to refine their protocols, improve consistency in outcomes, and better guide patients through the full regenerative process—not just the procedure itself.
Building a successful cash-based orthobiologic practice is not a single decision. It is a series of the right decisions made in the right order. The Business of Orthobiologics offers three distinct programs designed to meet physicians at different stages of readiness — whether you are just beginning to explore PRP, ready to build a full practice system, or committed to going all-in on a comprehensive transformation.
Learn More here: https://thebusinessoforthobiologics.com/programs-explanation
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We can't just treat a single body part or a single system if we want to actually do the patients justice and we actually want results and real results and long-term results for our patients. And guess what? People do it when it's all included. They don't make excuses as to why they're not. There are no psychedelics in the psychedelic packs. They're all vitamins. And there are supplements that work specifically on stem cells, right?
SPEAKER_00Welcome everybody. So I just wanted to welcome you to Conversations in Regenerative Medicine, where we are exploring with the pioneers of regenerative medicine controversial topics, cutting-edge insights that will shape the future of interventional orthobiologics. For those of you who don't know me, I'm Dr. Ariana Demers. I'm a board certified fellowship trained sports medicine orthopedic surgeon and regenerative medicine aficionado. I am a sought-after educator and trainer both in orthobiologics and ultrasound. I have successfully moved my rural California practice away from insurance and I focus on cash-based procedures. The thing I'm most passionate about, though, is helping physicians to incorporate orthobiologics seamlessly into their practices. It is my absolute privilege and excitement to welcome to our podcast, Jordana Quinn. Dr. Jordana Quinn, she is the founder of Core Regenerative Medicine in Golden, Colorado. She is a board-certified PMR and regenerative medicine specialist. She has a specialty training in regenerative medicine, functional medicine, anti-aging, and psychedelic medicine. She's also the founder of Quintessential Journey, and which we'll hear quite a bit more about, and then a member of the Intervention Orthobiologics Foundation and co-founder of the WOW, which is Women in Orthobiologics and Wellness Facebook group and co-author of The Gap. So Jordana Quinn, Dr. Jordana Quinn, welcome to Conversations in Region. I am looking forward to kicking off this topic. Is there anything that I missed that you want everybody to know about who you are and what you do?
SPEAKER_01There isn't. I think that was a lot. I have clearly educational FOMO. So that's how I got to this stage in life.
SPEAKER_00Right? We all do. We're like, ooh, we need to take those courses, that class, that class, get more certifications. But here we are. You're the expert in the room, and I'm really excited to kick this off. So I want everybody to understand this is more of an informal, just amongst friends chatting. It's like a fireside chat, right? We get to hear from internationally renowned experts in regenerative medicine and explore maybe controversial topics or cutting-edge topics and then gain actionable insights that you can implement in your practice immediately. And then finally, we get a QA session after to answer those burning questions. So I believe that orthobiologic treatments will be first-line treatment for musculosketal care in the next five years. And here's the deal: the train is leaving the station. And if you're not actively offering these treatments to your patients, you gotta get on the train. So, you know, a lot of times this is hard, right? You have your practice, you're working hard, you're buried in all of the standard um treatments, you can barely keep your head above water. And I know many of you are looking on other pieces of the puzzle to have a successful orthobiologic practice, but sometimes it's hard. You know, we know orthobiologics is the best treatment for our patients, but how do we be successful? And maybe you've tried some things. Maybe you're like, I just don't know if there's science to support it, I don't know the techniques, maybe I need to brush up on my ultrasound, maybe cash-based business is uh a little bit angst-producing, or you say, gosh, I'm not a marketer, I don't know how to market, I need a marketing guy, or you know, I don't want to be a salesman, and and you're not alone. And maybe you've just thought, gosh, I'm just not good at business, but it's not our feedback. We didn't learn this in school, but it is a learnable skill. And you know, a lot of my colleagues are wanting to know more on how we are able to successfully capitalize on this $4 billion for the biologics market. Maybe you're just thinking, gosh, uh, I I need more. I need more from my practice, I need more for my patients, I need more for myself. So if you want to put what you're struggling with most in the chat, that would be awesome. And so the question is is how to win, right? And while we are talking about the science, and we're gonna get pretty deep and nerdy into the science of this. This is my favorite part, but we also need to consider how we talk about this with our patients so we all can win. So we do need a system, and we're not gonna go over all of this today, but we are gonna get a little further down the journey to be wildly successful in your orthobiologic practice. So we're going to get down to business. So, Dr. Quinn, we have questions. So, our first question is, you know, we're gonna be talking about supplementation and you know, how do we optimize this peri-procedural window? And maybe why does it matter in terms of outcomes? What kind of makes supplement considerations around regenerative procedures biologically distinct from generalized wellness advice? And why should physicians be really paying quite a bit closer attention to not only what their patients are taking, but maybe what they're not taking? Why does it why is this so important? Where do you think we kind of make maybe miss the boat?
SPEAKER_01Well, let me kind of give you a little bit of background first because I think that will be helpful in terms of a little bit about how I got here, but also, well, I why why we're here, right? Why is this even a topic of conversation? So obviously, like, I mean, as a PM and R trained doc, well, PM and R trained doc. So traditional Western medicine, I'm an osteopath, but I've always been more holistically medicine-minded. However, when I started off like after residency in clinical practice, all I wanted to do literally was sports medicine, right? I didn't want the drug reps would come and talk to me. I literally remember a drug rep coming to talk to me about testosterone because opiates affect testosterone. And I was like, I don't want anything to do with that. And we had this conversation because now she and I are friends and we mountain bike together. But she literally makes fun of me for telling her, I want nothing to do with testosterone, don't talk to me about that. I just want to do sports medicine, and sometimes I'll do, you know, opiate pain management. And that's all I want to do. I was very narrow-focused. But I've been out of residency for almost two decades. And as I've grown into orthobiologics and then into longevity medicine, you just start realizing that we can't just treat a single body part or a single system if we want to actually do the patients justice and we actually want results and real results and long-term results for our patients. If we don't just want to mask the symptoms or put a band-aid on it or whatever the case may be, which is honestly a lot of what we learn in traditional Western medicine, right? And so, so it's a very kind of brief way of how I got here as I've expanded into orthobiologics and then longevity medicine. I mean, it really is about optimizing your health. And so in the longevity medicine space, optimizing cellular health is important. And so it's not just about giving patients medications, but how can we optimize our lifestyle, you know, from diet to exercise to then supplements and what we're putting into our body? How does what we're putting into our body affect our ability to thrive and our ability to function and our ability to perform? So that is how I got down to really diving deep into the supplement world, specifically for orthobiologic procedures. I've been doing orthobiologic procedures for, like I said, almost 20 years. And we didn't really focus on this, right? I mean, I guess 16 years ago when I started doing this, it was just about the procedure and how to do the procedure, how to extract fat or how to extract bone marrow and do the highest quality procedure. And no one was talking about how what we're eating specifically affects our athletes or specifically affects these procedures. And I just find it fascinating, and I'm kind of a biochemistry nerd. So I started researching what enhances our stem cells, right? If we're extracting stem cells from our patients, we want those stem cells to be as healthy as possible. And so I would like to believe that just at baseline, all of us know, like, for example, smoking cigarettes is terrible for our health, right? It decreases blood flow, our cells aren't working well, our blood flow isn't well, we're not gonna heal as well as we want. So we tell our patients not to smoke, hopefully at baseline. And so just like extrapolating that further, I mean, we can tell our patients to eat an anti-inflammatory diet or tell them to eat healthy or unprocessed foods, right? And so this was kind of an evolution over time. And so I went way down into the supplements, like not only what supplements are gonna optimize the environment that we're putting the cells into. So, but if we're doing autologous procedures, we also want to enhance the cells. We want the healthiest version of ourselves possible before going into these procedures because we're extracting parts of our body to then help heal the area. So we need the things we're extracting to be as healthy as possible, we need the environment we're putting them in to be as healthy as possible. And then obviously we want the recovery to be as swift as possible and people to feel good because we want the because we want them to feel good and we want them to have good outcomes. So that was a really long way of starting off the question of what makes supplement considerations around a regenerative procedure biologically distinct from general wellness and why should we be paying closer attention, right? And so, but I hope that gives you a little bit of background of like, I never intended to go down this route, but it's important because we actually get better outcomes, right? I mean, if you have a 200-pound smoker walk into your office with knee osteoarthritis and they want stem cells, and you're like, cool, I'll do a procedure, you can do that procedure, but think about the results that they're gonna get. How long? I mean, so you're the highest trained physician in the in the you know, in the world, but what you you still can only work with the tools you have in front of you, which is their body and their cells and their ability, well, their knowledge about health themselves, and then their ability to even exercise and recover on them themselves, right? And just from a safety standpoint, if they're healthier going into the procedure, it's less likely to have a core outcome or an adverse event. So, I mean, so what makes these supplements around regenerative procedures distinct from general wellness is, you know, if if if a hundred people walked into my office and I had to put them on supplements, it wouldn't be the supplements from the quintessential line that I created. I mean, generically, very generically, I mean, I think most people could take vitamin D and probably some fish oil for cardiac health and like a multivitamin, right? But I mean, I view, I personally view supplements like medications, right? I mean, that's like someone walking into your office and you can generically put how many of the population on a statin and an antidepressant and an anti-inflammatory, right? I mean, that's kind of what people view supplements like, and that's just not the way to practice medicine, right? We want precision medicine for our patients. So tell me about this.
SPEAKER_00So your your perception is that number one, you can supplement generically, but as we go down this path of orthobiologic procedures, there are more specific things that we need to pay attention to. You know, is that correct? Is that your your as far as pre-optimization, but then also post-injection healing procedures? That that's what you're getting at.
SPEAKER_01Totally. I mean, we these are cash-based procedures. We want the high, I mean, everybody deserves a good procedure, whether it's insurance or cash-based. But people are paying us cash. They are coming here to our clinics because they choose us. They don't, their insurance doesn't tell us to go here. Just, and so they expect a high quality, they expect us to know more than people who haven't gone down this path. And and we want those outcomes, right? I mean, if people are paying us thousands and thousands of dollars for these procedures, all I want are outcomes for my patients. I mean, I want to improve their quality of life. And not only does the and so again, like I mean, I think I like the medication analogy that I just gave that I just made up, but it is like you could say, oh, just take a multivitamin, and that is not the same, just as, you know, just take a Lexapro, you know, I could just hand out Lexapro and Lipitor and, you know, ibuprofen at my door, and 50% of my patients might be just fine after that, right? But that's not personalized treatment. That doesn't speak to what I'm going to actually be doing in my office. That's just taking a very non-targeted approach. And there are supplements that work specifically on stem cells, right? So what I've researched is supplements that help optimize stem cell health, that optimize that decreased stem cell senescence, right? So like that decreased stem cell death, that it improve their migration and improve their ability to turn into the desired lineage of like cartilage and what you're turning them into, as a as opposed to real quick death or real quick or going down like a pathway of forming scar tissue or something like that. And so there are very real effects that happen from these substances. And so why not like add that and optimize our patient outcomes? And and and I want to on the front end, and and it is like so again, building your system on the front end and then also helping with recovery on the back end because these are significant procedures that we're doing on patients. We know that in surgery, I think nutritional status is like one of the number one predictors of adverse events, like healthy nutritional status significantly decreases adverse events in surgery. And so, why aren't we focused on this in orthobiologics, right?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. So let's get a little further down into this. I know you have really done the deep dive. And so, if you could review, like what are we starting with? What are we putting our patients on to optimize on the front end?
SPEAKER_01So, well, what are your goals, right? So I've created supplement packs that are designed for these procedures to optimize on the front end and on the back end. And in the in my packs, I haven't distinguished optimization on the front end from recovery because so much of it we want we want the same things. We again we want stem cell migration, we want them to last a long time, we want to decrease inflammation in the joint space. We want to make sure that we're set up for success. And so in those things, so so so you could do it on your own. I mean, I think some of the most important things is to make sure the inflammatory status is down. So, I mean, checking labs before actually you go into these procedures is important. Like someone who has a high CRP, we know is going to their cell death is going to increase much or is much higher than someone who doesn't have high inflammatory markers. So I check CRP and an ESR on all of my patients before going in. I check vitamin D status. Vitamin D is, I mean, is everywhere and it regulates a ton of genes involved in stem cell production. So it actually increases stem cell proliferation rates. So I mean, just very generically, we could put our patients on vitamin D, we could put our patients on an anti-inflammatory or Mediterranean diet, which is helps decrease inflammation and actually promotes stem cell proliferation and stem cell migration. So even if you did omega-3s, fish oil, good for cardiac health, also reduce inflammation and support tissue repair. So those are some, I think, supplements that probably most people have heard of that they could put their patients on if they want to. You know, making sure your patients are eating enough protein or just taking collagen or protein powder, that's gonna help with like the scaffolding and the extracellular matrix and do and it helps with stem cell differentiation. Creatine is another good one. I feel like creatine is a little bit of a buzzword these days. There is such a thing as too much creatine. I know there's a ton of influencers saying 10 and 50 grams of creatine every day is the best thing and it's good for brain health and all of that. Excuse me, and it might be great for brain health, but it can affect your kidneys. And there is conflicting research on whether creatine increasing your creatinine is just a transient effect or a long-term effect, but I haven't found any studies that that make me feel good about putting patients on super duper high doses of creatine every day. So I have patients all the time that come in. I mean, a lot of my patients are already like, you know, biohacking on their own. And so we, well, we're doing comprehensive labs, but I'll look at their creatinine and their creatinine is high. And I would say nine out of ten, I times I ask them, like, are you on creatine? Yes, they're on five to ten or more grams a day. And so I just have them take that on the days they're lifting heavy or three times a week, you know, and I and nobody has complained that their physique has dwindled because they're on less creatine. So so I do think creatine is important. It's very important for mitochondrial health. So it helps you repair from the procedure more quickly. So does protein, like I already mentioned. I mean, there's so many good supplements, you know. I could talk about everything that I put into my stem cell packets, which I think is important, but there are other ones. I mean, when I was researching what's best for stem cells and how do we enhance stem cell production in the body, I mean, there's so many things. So it is picking and choosing, you know, what's well, what's important for for my patients. And then there's always, there's always nuances for your like specific patient.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So, you know, you brought up a good point, you know, putting patients on turmeric and fish oil and vitamin C, you know, there's been some questions when you're doing pre-procedural optimization and you're using these supplements. Are there risks of bleeding risks, inflammatory interference with these supplements that we're we're using, like fish oil, turmeric, vitamin C? What's your thoughts on that piece? I think lots of people are very interested, and it definitely is controversial from a from a risk standpoint. What are your perspectives on that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think, well, so I happened to put fish oil and turmeric in my supplement packs. I don't have vitamin C only because, again, you have to like pick and choose what you're gonna put in. I think vitamin C is a wonderful supplement to put your patients on for decreasing inflammation and for it's a very, very potent antioxidant. But I just felt like probably either people were taking vitamin C or got enough vitamin C most of the time, as compared to the benefits of fish oil and turmeric. And so I used to tell my patients to get off of fish oil because I do personally notice like probably a slight increased risk of bleeding, or like like if people are on fish oil and I'm doing a procedure, I do think their blood is a little bit thinner than someone who's not just, you know, over the years that I've been doing this, but I don't, I no longer take any of my patients off of fish oil. The bleeding risk is not, doesn't even compare to ibuprofen, right? So all of us of us who have done procedures, and you know, when someone's just kind of bleeding more than the average person, you ask them if they've taken anti-inflammatories or steroids or and I'm keeping like the humidins and things like that out of this completely, but it's it's not even close to even like a bleeding with an N said. So to me, the small increase, I mean, they're they're both fish oil and turmeric decrease platelet aggregation. So they do increase bleeding risk. Although if you do some research, I believe actually turmeric in the studies has showed more increase of bleeding risk than fish oil, which is surprising to me because in my clinical practice, I have not found that people on turmeric seem to have a, I mean, I'm not actually measuring it, but you know, from procedures, when you do enough procedures, like their bleeding time doesn't seem to be increased to me as compared to people on fish oil, but it's so minor. I mean, even doing spine procedures, I wouldn't hesitate to not take my patients off of fish oil and turmeric. So I decided to leave them in my supplement packs because I think the benefit outweigh the risk.
SPEAKER_00Awesome, awesome. And so, you know, it it seems that in uh interventional pain worlds where we're talking about interventional spinal procedures, there is some conversation and more adherence to that perisurgical where we take everybody off of all of their supplements ahead of time. Does that does that play into your consideration? Particularly the the spinal interventions?
SPEAKER_01No, because I don't I don't presently do spinal interventions, but I used to, and I would feel very good about leaving my patients on both. Fish oil and turmeric because I've done enough procedures in my life that I have a very good sense of that like increased bleeding risk. I mean, I, you know, think most people take their patients off of all supplements because they don't know anything about supplements. So it's easier to say just don't take the supplements and don't take than than to actually research a supplement and stay on it. But I mean, but I do have, I mean, like I said, I've been, I mean, I've done hundreds of these procedures. I've been a doctor for a long, long time. I really don't think the the bleeding is so great. I mean, it's still like while I feel like the blood is a little bit thin, I mean, you can still apply pressure and they're not gonna get like a big hematoma, you know, they're not gonna bleed out. Like you can still stop the bleeding. It decreases platelet aggregation. It doesn't completely stop it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, this this is so helpful, I think, as we consider, you know, we still have more questions. So we're gonna keep going. And so you've done quite a bit of research, you've gone that that deep dive. And so some people think, you know, and and ask me, and so this is why you're here. Can supplements actively improve your outcomes? You know, are there supplements that don't just avoid harm but genuinely support that success of the regenerative procedures? And what does an evidence-based pre-procedure protocol actually look like? What what when you are like, okay, here's my protocol, what does that look like for you?
SPEAKER_01Well, I would say that there are there are actually studies that show that that supplements, individual supplements, like no one's studied my PACs yet, but they should improve outcomes. And so let me let me back up. There are studies that show individually that different supplements will increase things like colony forming units, right? After an optimization protocol. Supplements will improve pain reduction and recovery after a procedure. There have been studies that actually show improved, well, there was a study for specifically for knee osteoarthritis that I forget which supplement this was, but taking, I forget which supplement, but it's in my packs before and after the procedure improved functional, you know, knee applications like a vascor and a couple's and a rope womac. And so there are actual studies that show supplements do improve outcomes. Supplements were never used that I can remember in isolation outside, I mean, because you're also, I mean, I would like to believe also that, you know, you have like a way overweight smoker and you're not just like, well, here's some vitamin D, and now we're gonna get a better outcome, right? You're probably hopefully talking them about lifestyle too, maybe going on a Mediterranean diet or anti-inflammatory diet. And so it's never like how many things, I mean, outside of a study are done in isolation. And even in a study, things are rarely done in isolation because you probably put some one on a supplement in a study and they just, you know, intentionally are being more intentional about what they're putting in their mouths and what they're eating and things like that. But so the studies, like so a peri-procedural protocol from what I have studied, most of the studies really recommend honestly six to eight weeks of doing a pre-treatment protocol. That from in me and my practice is hard. I mean, some people want to do obviously their procedures sooner. Sometimes I am booked out that far, but usually I'm recommending at least four weeks of a pre-procedure protocol in my patients. And that involves, I mean, it is a whole protocol. It is, they 100% of my regenerative patients meet with a nutritionist. We have a nutritionist in her office, they meet at least once. Even my high-level athletes, they will at least meet with her. And 9.9 out of 10 people are thrilled that they met with her. Like, right, she has some sort of advice, whether it's anti-inflammatory diet, other supplements. I mean, she also talks to them about, you know, what exercise they're doing, sleep optimization, stress, all of these things really are studied and help improve outcomes. And so the recommendation is to start six to eight weeks before. In my office, we start at least four weeks before we get, we do get lab work. The recommendation is to follow up on that lab work before you do the procedure. I actually only do that in my very unhealthy patients. Fortunately, I live in Colorado, so I see a very high-quality patient at baseline a lot of the time. You know, they're generally athletes or weekend warriors or pretty healthy. It's pretty rare that I have, well, even a smoker come into my office. We will get, you know, extremely overweight people. And honestly, we put them on a weight loss program first, and they just the outcomes are so much better and they're so much happier. I mean, I think they're they're longer, our our success is longer. They feel better sooner, they're less inflamed after the procedure. I feel better doing the procedure because it is an invasive procedure. So, so a peri-procedure protocol looks like doing an initial assessment. We do an in-body scan on all of our patients, we do some pre-procedure lab work, we put them on an anti-inflammatory diet. We do meet them where they're at with that. Like we're not putting everyone on the exactly the same diet, but we are recommending an anti-inflammatory diet, fasting or intermittent fasting for a little while right before the procedure, not day of. I don't do day of anymore, but I do, we do do it a few weeks before the procedure does increase autophagy, it helps recycle those cells and does set your body up in a better environment for the procedure. We try to put all of our patients on either physical therapy or personal training, depending on where they are in their health. You know, if they're if they're more injured, it's obviously physical therapy. If they're pretty healthy, then we connect them with a personal trainer and we meet with them kind of every other week, right before their procedure, and then we meet with them after, and they continue supplements for about a month after the procedure as well, and they're usually like pretty happy and stick with their you know anti-inflammatory diet.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Awesome. That's so helpful. You know, I have uh followed your advice and continue to kind of push that boundary and optimize sooner and start the supplements sooner and check labs sooner. And every time I check the labs, I'm so happy that I did. Because number one, if they're great, great. We feel very good confident and comfortable that we can just pull the trigger. If they're not great, it also gives us room to move for pre-procedure, pre-procedure optimization that I wouldn't have known about, like if I didn't check. So I've never been like, oh darn it, we we checked and and you know, found these labs. So for me, it's really important. You and I are similar. We don't, I don't recheck those labs before we we pull the trigger to go. And we do continue supplementation from a research perspective, it would probably be reasonable to you know check four weeks before, check day of, and check, you know, four and eight weeks after. Maybe we can get some funding for that. Totally.
SPEAKER_01I'm in I'm in with you once we get funding. No, I think it's I mean, I think, but you also, I mean, you know, we've been doing this long enough or been physicians long enough, you do get a general sense of where patients are at. I mean, if someone was still really struggling or not feeling good or not, I mean, I can't think of a single patient since I started implementing nutritional optimization, which has been over a year now, but I mean, people will come in and I, I mean, because we've been doing it so long, I for, you know, I just forget that they've seen our nutritionist and they'll be like, your nutritionist is awesome, or I feel so good. I mean, there's these like side comments of how good people feel even before going into the procedure, even in my healthy patients, they're just like, I just feel so good, you know. I was I you put me on the detox for a week or you did whatever. And it's always just such wonderful positive feedback because to me it makes sense. And it did take a while to get there. So kind of circling back in the beginning, you were, you know, I'm assuming a lot of the people on this call are either newly in the space or maybe considering or newly opening their businesses or whatever. And it's it's a lot of information and you don't have to do it all yourself or all by yourself. I mean, we well, A, I've made supplement packs for you, but B, I mean, some people work with my nutritionist or maybe you know another nutritionist. Like you don't have to have everybody in house, you don't have to, you just don't have to do it all. And so it's really realizing that like we are here to help, we have resources to help, or to make your life easier. But also when I started packaging things all together, and it was increasing my prices when I was packaging them, but people were compliant. So I mean, just over a year ago, I used to recommend the supplements that I put into my packs, but I would just have them. I didn't want to charge them more, or maybe there was a little while where I would recommend the supplements, right? And some people would take them, some people wouldn't. I would recommend my nutritionist, some people would do it, some people wouldn't. And now I just it's all included. So it's the same price whether you decide to talk to my nutritionist or not. It's the same price whether you put those supplements that I'm sending you home with into your mouth or not. And guess what? People do it when it's all included. They don't make excuses as to why they're not. Some people, again, I mean, I do see some like professional athletes, they're never going to take my supplements or talk to my nutritionist, and that's fine. They have all of their own people, but it's the same price, it's no different. And that really helped move the needle for my patients to be compliant, but also just right. I mean, to get the results we want. I mean, we're getting so much better results. So, although, anyways, going back to like you get a sense when people are doing well. And if I guess if I had someone who really wasn't doing well or wasn't getting the results or commenting, you know, maybe I'd check labs again beforehand. I just haven't really found it necessary, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. It's sort of like a gym membership, you know. You you don't have to use a sauna, but it's included. So if you use a sauna, you should.
SPEAKER_01Totally. Totally.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. So, you know, we we talked about the timeline for this conversation, kind of backing that up at minimum at four weeks. You know, the science may support six to eight weeks. Um and then let's talk a little bit about that post-procedural window. You're you're talking about, you know, at least four weeks of supplementation afterwards. Talk to me a little bit about why this may be an overlooked opportunity for improved healing.
SPEAKER_01I mean, so a big part of it is just the inflammation that happens. I mean, we want the inflammation ortho biologics, but as we all know, there's kind of like good inflammation and bad inflammation, right? And if you start off inflamed, and then we are relying, and so, you know, really, in my opinion, I mean, there's like 72 hours of good inflammation, right? We want all of the healing factors and all the inflammation to come. And then there's a big difference in inflammation that just kind of sticks around and chronic inflammation that hangs out, like that's not good inflammation. And there are some people that have better blood flow, they don't smoke, and so they're going to be able to clear that inflammation sooner. You know, if you're just generally healthier, you can clear that inflammation sooner if you're not smoking, if you're, you know, not drinking around the times of your procedures. And so, and generally, if you have an anti-you know, having an anti-inflammatory diet isn't going to stop the inflammatory process that's happening in your body that we want, right? And so I think that the word inflammation and anti-inflammation is a little bit confusing for probably not for doctors, but for people, because as physicians, we want the inflammation. Just because you're an anti-inflammatory diet, you're not increasing the inflammatory process that we're causing. And so setting you up for success, I mean, it's like we are priming the system beforehand and in setting having this anti-inflammatory environment. Because degenerative joins inherently are super inflamed and inherently are super toxic to cells. And so we want to make them less toxic on the front end so that you can not only recover more quickly, but then you continue taking the supplements and you continue eating anti-inflammatory so that you recover and you repair sooner. Because the the supplements and the anti-inflammatory diet and even the sleep and decreasing stress and exercise all are helping you repair and recover sooner. So it's not just like, oh, we prep, we do the procedure, boom, we're done, we go back to life and we can not sleep and we can smoke, right? I mean, you have you have it takes time to heal. I mean, we know that most of these procedures, people don't notice a benefit until an around the six to eight week point, right? I mean, or or a significant benefit. And so all of that time, that healing process is still happening. And then we also know for those of us who have been in the space, people still are reporting improvements at six months out. Not even just like, I still feel good. Like they are get they are better than they were at five months out and better than at four months. And so, I mean, I would argue, and I have not seen studies or haven't looked up studies, that probably sticking with these diets and supplementation for three and for six months out is probably the best thing you can do for repair and recovery. It just hasn't been studied that far out because most of the studies are for pre-optimization, leading into a little bit of, you know, post.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, we do have more questions. And so uh, you know, if I think, you know, let's go back a little bit and and talk a little bit about the quintessential and you know, what you know, can you tell me a little bit about how you came to make these little these supplement packs? And and because I think it's very I mean it's awesome. I use these in my practice, and it's my patients love them. Can you talk a little bit about how this came to be?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, it wasn't through stem cells at all. Um, this came to be, so I also work in the psychedelic medicine space, and I've been in that space for about seven years, and my pre-occupations essentially for psychedelic journeys for therapists, right? And so therapists send me their patients, and either I need to get them off medications or just make sure they're safe to do these medicines. And often, because I've been in longevity, the therapist would ask me, what supplements do you find the most valuable, you know, to optimize cellular health around and prevent, like in these psychedelic journeys, you can have a huge crash, you could not feel good during the journey, you can have some transition anxiety. There's a whole bunch of things that can happen. And so they would ask me what supplements should their patients take for these journeys. And I was recommending like three and four hundred dollars worth of supplements for a single-day journey, which is a ton of money for one day. And then I was also, as a physician, getting a ton of questions from these patients, you know. And so I just wanted to pre-op them and send them on their way. And I was getting lots and lots of emails, you know, when do I take these supplements? How do I take these supplements, you know, upside down and inside out? And so I just thought, you know what? I'm gonna make it easy for people. I'm gonna create these cute little packs for my therapists. They can, or I'll give them to the patients and just make it easy. It'll be cheaper, it'll be quick, it'll be very simple. I wish I had one in front of me. I don't. But, anyways, I made these packs. They're well, they're week to two-week long packs. They start beforehand, they prep their system for these journeys because psychedelic journeys, like orthobiologic journeys, are a huge hit to the system. They're affecting your mitochondria, they take a lot of energy, and I want people to have these beautiful neuroplastic changes. And so I researched biochemistry, you know, how are these substances affecting the patients? What's being depleted? Why are people crashing? Why are they not feeling good? Why aren't they sleeping after? And I made these packs and they were pretty successful pretty quickly. People really wanted them, we're getting great outcomes, we're not crashing, we're feeling good. And then I told a lot of my colleagues in in regenerative medicine about them, and they asked me to make ones for orthobiologic procedures, and so I made them for you all. So I did, so I spent time doing research, and I've worked in this field for so long. And so, I mean, I've worked in regenerative medicine for, like I said, I think 16 years now. And it's important. I don't know why it didn't occur to me to do first, I guess because I I just I was I was literally giving my patients so many different supplements, and and supplements would come in and out of, I would try to recommend three to five, and it would always be like seven or eight. And so kind of the same thing with the stem cell ones. They're just there's so I would try to recommend different ones for different times, and honestly, like I created these packs because you all asked me to, and I'm in love with them. I mean, I think I've spent so much time researching. I think the ingredients are high quality, the they're effective. Patients love them, and it's easy. I mean, there's morning and there's evening, and you take it for ideally four weeks before, four weeks after. There's 30-day packs, but you know, sometimes it's two weeks before, two weeks after. It's so that's kind of how that evolved.
SPEAKER_00So tell me, yeah, it's been amazing for my patients. And I I ran into the same problem where I would recommend these supplements and I would send them home with them, even, but then they had questions. And they're like, Well, dude, do I take that? What I mean, it's clearly set on the back, but they still were like always asking, and then it was like, Oh my gosh, this is way too much, you know. I'm trying to get you a good outcome. Let's let's make it easy. And so transitioning to that is like, just do this, and it makes it so much easier for the patient. So if a physician here on the call wanted to add their periprocedural supplementation to their practice tomorrow, what are the minimum viable starting points of the top three things that you think move the needle the most?
SPEAKER_01Man, what moves the needle the most? I mean, I think nutrition, whether that's I can't say honestly that it's supplements instead of diet. I would put diet in front of supplements, you know, or at least put them together because it's so important. Really getting that inflammation out of the body. Gosh, it's just is people, it changes lives for people. And so you have to have that conversation with people. I mean, I'm sure you could chat GPT or Google, you know, Mediterranean diet and print something out. And I bet that would move the needle the most. But it's not just giving them a handout, it's caring and talking to them and like having the conversations and having accountability and follow-up. I'm gonna keep saying the same thing. I think the detox that we put our patients on, I'm like it's you can get it online. It's it's it also moves the needle a lot because it is anti-inflammatory, it resets the system. People feel really good and they're very intentional about what they're putting in their mouth. So, I mean, I think the one thing that moves the needle the most is accountability and diet, like those two things together. So whether it's detox, diet, and supplements, I mean, I think all of those things are probably the most important, and also the most important is sleep.
SPEAKER_00You know, you're not wrong. And so I tell my patients this all the time. I went to a peptide conference, right? And I was like, okay, I'm gonna learn all about peptides. And what I came away from the conference was the most important things for cellular health are sleep, stress reduction, exercise, and diet. And so we focus on those first and then add that supplementation later. So I think you know, yeah, I'm I'm echoing what you said, but as physicians, we do have a real opportunity to affect positive change for our patients, especially in this space where people are putting their money where their mouth is and saying, Hey, listen, I want really, really good outcomes, and we now get to say, Great, this is how we get them, and and and helping to equip them for sleep and stress and diet and exercise, oh yeah, and supplementation, and a really great procedure as well. So I think that that it allows us to now have that conversation. My one of my favorite things about diet is asking my patients, well, you know, what what are we doing about diet right now? Are you on an anti-inflammatory diet? And so one of the things that does is it takes it out of like this food shaming, really uncomfortable conversation. I'm like, no, no, no, we're talking about anti-inflammatory diet. And they're like, oh, oh, like a treatment protocol diet, okay, okay, well, I'm not really doing that. Great, let me help you. Like we have a step-by-step program and process, and let's get you going. And it just takes that whole conversation, that uncomfortable conversation out of that uncomfortable portion of the visit and says, Hey, let's talk about diet of the anti-inflammatory kind, and let's get you going, and let's equip you with all the things without kind of going into that other piece, which makes everybody feel kind of uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01Totally.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I think it's our responsibility, you know. It doesn't happen, unfortunately, a lot in where Western medicine is in the insurance model. People aren't expecting to hear it, but I think our patients are at least more ready to hear it, right? Because I don't know, because they're paying cash for their procedures, or maybe that's just because I push it so hard. I don't know. But I think, I mean, I guess not everybody is, but also when you're really coming from a place of concern and this is like, I want to help you, like, let me help you help yourself. I think people get it. And I think we're doing a disservice by not addressing that as well, you know?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, absolutely. Well, this has been awesome. Last question what is the most surprising thing that you've learned about supplements and regenerative outcomes that you did not expect when you did the deep dive?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I honestly didn't expect that people would feel so good. I mean, or maybe I didn't, I didn't think about it, you know. I was just, it felt like, I mean, like how I mentioned it started off in the psychedelic space, it was it felt like a need and a necessity. I mean, I wasn't setting out to create a supplement company. I was just like it felt like a necessity and a need, and I wanted to simplify it and make it easier. And then as I've made it easier for orthobiologic patients, it it kind of just makes sense. So mostly just the the the gratitude that people have for it, which feels really validating with how good they feel, and and yeah, I wasn't I wasn't expecting that.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing, but you know, and I think the validation also comes from Your peers that are like, Yes, please give us these things, we're really and we've all had the same problems. So, I what I'm gonna say is, you know, what is that next step, right? Uh, so number one, when we're doing our cash-based procedures, you need our a practice launch system, you need a system, right? And we need to be able to have this really deep orthobiologic knowledge or know someone who's done the research, right? And done the deep dive. We need to attract the right patients, create that cash-based business so that we can actually recognize success. Clearly, we want to be able to have high-converting consults and of course be putting this all together for success for the right patients, those ones that need your help, and they want to feel good. So, if you want the fast track, I'm going to just offer you this three-minute quiz for orthobiologic readiness. Go ahead and just scan that QR code, and that'll get you kind of on the journey to where are you in this orthobiologics practice, cash practice launch journey. And then I wanted to share this is Dr. Jordana Quinn's company. This is the Ignite Pack, which is that orthobiologic support protocol. And I'm gonna go ahead and put this in the chat. So she has been really doing a great job. And what we get to have is she also has an affiliate program, which is amazing. So if you're interested in stocking these packs and you want to be able to sell this to your patients, I just put that affiliate program in the link, and we'll go from there. So quintessentialjourney.com is her website, and uh that's how you can reach her. And this has really been a game changer for my patients and for me, so I don't have to explain how to take the dang supplements all the time. So it definitely has been amazing. I did want to before we go to QA, we have uh I just wanted to make sure that I invite you to a three-day event to get the roadmap to a predictable cash pay practice. This is June 5th through the 7th at the Phoenician in Scottsdale, Arizona. This is only limited to 40 physicians. So it does include a two-night luxury stay and an MSK Ultrasound shoulder primer with CME, AI Practice Tool Implementation Blueprint to implement AI tools into your practice, a cash pay revenue infrastructure framework so that you know how to and can successfully take cash and thrive. And then finally, it is a private personalized implementation environment with direct working with the experts in the field with all of these pieces. So tomorrow the price goes up. So please, please, please scan that QR code. It'll take you to the informational website. And I just wanted to invite you, offer that for you all who are on the call today. Come on down. We'd love to have you. I hope to see you in June to really map out each step of the way how to have a predictable, successful, wildly successful cash pay orthobiologic practice. So I will thank Dr. Jordana Quinn so much. We now have an opening for questions from the field. So this is definitely put it in the chat. Raise your hand. Things, the burning questions that you are wondering about. I will take a look at this. Let's see here.
SPEAKER_01You know, and while you're looking at that, I'll just say in the meantime, for the ortho biologic packs, we are officially going to market soon. So the, I mean, they are already for sale, but we are having for your listeners and whoever listens to the podcast for the next two months. The packs are 150 per pack, but that price is going up in a couple of months, so uh to 180. So I would encourage you to you can reach out to Ariana or reach out to care at Quintessential Journey. I'll put it in the chat in a minute if you are interested in kind of locking in that price before it goes up.
SPEAKER_00No, that's 150 for the 30-day pack.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And once we go to actually, I don't think I can can I comment in chat? I'm sure I can. Oh, yeah, I can. You can reach out to here if I mean great, awesome. If you if you hear about this and want to get it on that deal before we go to market.
SPEAKER_00Amazing, amazing. Thank you. All right, guys. So this is your time to, you know, ask questions. If there's things that you're wondering about supplements, and you know, you've heard X, Y, or Z, or you know, you've struggled with either getting patients to be compliant or you haven't even given it that thought because you're you're just trying to do a good job with the procedure, please raise your hand or put that in the chat, and we will absolutely answer any and all questions. You know, uh while we're waiting for oh yes, oh yes, what's the name? Oh, Ben, yes. Would you private label? Oh, Ben wants to need a private label that yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, we've been asked that question before, and we will be looking into that in the future. But since we are literally like a brand new company right now, we're just trying to get our name out. I mean, we're not even a year old, but we actually get asked that question all the time. So it's on the docket, but first we're going to market with our company as quintessential journey or quintessential stem cells, probably specifically for this one. So I guess if enough if enough people start ordering and we have a viable product under our name, then we would be happy to white label for you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So that means everybody has to order a year in advance. Then if we have that, you know, that amount, then I'm sure we could you guys could white label that, right? I say we like I have anything to do. I just I just buy the product for my patients. And have I have an affiliate link for my patients so that they can continue taking those supplements afterwards and they can purchase directly with that affiliate link. So definitely something to think about for your patients, putting a little link to for them to purchase directly. All right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we have a wholesale, I think it's by, I think we have a actually, I'm not sure that we've launched the wholesale side yet because it's just been affordable at this point. But once we go to market and they increase in price a little bit, then we can offer wholesale prices to you guys. So all the things are happening, it just slowly.
SPEAKER_00So the Nike pack is the one for the orthobiologic patients, correct? Yes. You can get the the psychedelic packs, but I don't think they're gonna work quite as well.
SPEAKER_01No, not different ingredients.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Great question.
SPEAKER_01There are no psychedelics in the psychedelic packs, they are all vitamins.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right. Yes, they're just supplements, they're not psychedelics. Yeah, I I think so, you know, you have such a good explanation on your website, and you know, can you delve a little bit? We have about five more minutes. Can you delve into maybe that, you know, that one-page explainer that you have for your for your packs, I thought was so good. Um, and can you just kind of delve into why you chose each of the things that are in there? And you know, I can absolutely list that those out, but I'm sure you totally know. Um yeah, so why don't we why don't I just list that off and you can tell me what from a bio like a cellular health mechanism why this is so important? So you I think you talked about creatine being in there as and so just kind of top of mind, what what is that, why is that in there? What is it so important for cellular health?
SPEAKER_01Yep. So creatine, I view, I mean, if I had to pick, you know, prep or recovery, I'd put it more in the recovery, but it's important because it actually enhances satellite stem cell production. So that's your muscle cells, stem cell production. So for recovery, it's great. It also supports neural stem cell differentiation.
SPEAKER_00Okay, how about L-carnosetine?
SPEAKER_01L-carnosine is stimulates stem cell proliferant, prolifer. I can't, it's the all the words start sounding the same, proliferation, and it actually protects stem cells from oxidative stress and glycation damage, and it stimulates, I believe, TNF beta, and yeah, which is anti-inflammatory.
SPEAKER_00Of course. And then you have the vitamin D3, which we all know is massively important, but in that in the from the lens of orthobiologics, why so important?
SPEAKER_01I mean, it supports immune function, which is huge. I mean, not because we don't want our patients to get sick, which we don't, but like immune cells are involved in all of stem cells, and it increases stem cell proliferation rates as well.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. How about the curcetin?
SPEAKER_01Circetin is a really potent synolytic. So it lowers, I think, IL-6 and IL beta, IL1 beta. Yeah, but really potent senselytic.
SPEAKER_00This is off the top of your head. I love this so much. You're like, oh, and it just does this. Which ones are are have you put in there for improvement with blood flow?
SPEAKER_01So nitric oxide. And there's another one. What else is in there?
SPEAKER_00So we have resveratol.
SPEAKER_01Resveratrol is good for mitochondrial health. I also have NMN, which is a precursor to NAD. So, you know, those, I mean resveratrol is a polyphenol. So resveratrol, turmeric, and quircetine all like act synergistically together to decrease senescence, decrease apoptosis, improve mitochondrial biogenesis and longevity. But then I also thought like NMN would be good because I just love NMN and I think optimizing our mitochondrial health is super important. So that's actually in all of my supplements.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, because we want each cell to be at the top of their game, right? For if we're trying to help with healing and improvement of outcomes, that's not like I this is part of why I am so excited for this pack, is because it has all these things that are really optimizing cellular health.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, and then I think there's also collagen in my supplements, which just like, you know, again, that goes back to like protein being important, enhancing repair and recovery, and that like extracellular matrix. That's all we missed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then the and we talked about the fish oil as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would like to make these vegan, but I just find collagen and fish oil to be so important. So these aren't vegan. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, we'll do our best for our vegan patients, but for the rest of us, we'll we'll suffer through. All right, well, this has been so phenomenal. I really appreciate you coming in and uh sharing your knowledge with us. This was awesome. And for those of you who are looking for that, that's at quinesentialjourney.com. And if you want the price before the price goes up, it's care at quintessentialjourney.com. And we are now just at the beginning of April 2026, so that's gonna be good for April and May. We'll be expiring in June of this year. And oh, we do have one final question. Oh, you got that. I you also make sure that they exercise at least 20 minutes before the procedure. So, yes, that's also an important piece of the puzzle that Blaine, yeah, he he asked if there's protocols for exercise on the day of the procedure.
SPEAKER_01That wasn't studied, but we do know that exercise increases plate, I mean, increases platelet counts and increases stem cells. So I have them even just go for a walk, you know, outside, like park their car and go for a walk before they come into my office if they can.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's been some good studies that it mobilizes stem cells in the peripheral blood from Adam Ants. So, yeah, that I that's absolutely perfect as well. This is a holistic approach for our patients, and so congratulations to you. Thanks so much for making the packs for my patients. They uh obviously appreciate that. And if anyone else is interested, please reach out. This is an awesome product. So thanks so much, Dr.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, everybody.
SPEAKER_00All right, have a great night, everybody. Take care. We'll see you in two weeks.